Andrew,

Don’t know if you saw it, but what did you think about Lionel’s comments on addressing environmental problems in his post (scroll down) on welcoming children?

However, it’s not really true that overpopulation itself is causing the strain on the earth’s resources. What is causing this strain is a much more basic problem—a problem which Francis Schaeffer identified way back in the 1960s, and a problem which the Bible talks about again and again: human greed (e.g. Exod 20:17, Rom 1:29, Jas 4:2-3). It’s not that there are too many people, it’s that certain people (especially in the West) are insatiably using more and more resources. Think of Australians: in general, on average, we are gobbling up oil to get ourselves around more conveniently, and we are gobbling up land because the average household size has dropped, so fewer and fewer people are now living in bigger and bigger houses (not to mention the extra cost in electricity for heating and lighting, etc). The strain on the earth’s resources would be stopped overnight if we all became content with what we had, and were happy to live with larger families under one roof.

Or take food resources, for example. To quote a statistic I heard recently, there are now more obese and overweight people in the world than there are malnourished people in the world. (That includes countries such as China.) That statistic means that there is more than enough food for everybody many times over. It’s just that it’s not being distributed properly—because of corruption and greed. Overpopulation isn’t the problem; it’s the age-old problem of greed.

In fact, I reckon a better way for western Christians to combat the problems that are so often blamed on overpopulation would be to have more children—providing that they are committed to seeing that all of their children are “Christianly and virtuously brought up”. For if that is true, there should be more and more people who have been brought up to be less greedy, more patient and more generous, to use less resources, and therefore to effect a good and lasting change in our world.

Maybe I am off your topic a bit, but it’s so very heard to know exactly what to believe about global warming and so on, whereas it seems very clear to me that humans ought not to be be greedy and profligate in their use of resources. And the coming judgment ought to be an incentive to repent of such waste!

Our destiny is worm food? I thought we believed in bodily resurrection?

Hi Michael.  I may not have been clear - but this is the destiny for our bodies until Christ returns (see the opening sentence of the paragraph).  The point still stands.  Doctors try and fix up the body even though it will be destroyed physically by worms.

Don’t know if you saw it, but what did you think about Lionel’s comments on addressing environmental problems in his post (scroll down) on welcoming children? 

Hi Sandy.  This is an excellent post by Lionel and the comments you make are right.  I have five kids of my own and yet it’s still hard to teach ourselves and our children to be less greedy - particularly at this time of the year.  A couple of days ago we came back from our holiday.  We had a great time staying in a holiday house with hardly any ‘stuff’, but were shocked when we came back to our house and all our junk that burdens us down.

Thanks Andrew, especially for tackling the issue from the perspective of scripture.

Personally I found the report you mentioned to be quite depressing.

I have concluded to this point in time (and hope to be proved wrong) that there is no mention of the ‘destruction/end of the created order’ because this is not believed, at least not in the terms as you express it or as I understand it from scripture. Rather the emphasis from the article (and some discussions in other places) seems to be on ‘renewing’ and ‘rejuvenating’ rather than on ‘new’ as in Rev 21-22.

Am I missing something here? Please correct me if I am wrong in my thoughts.

Di

Am I missing something here? Please correct me if I am wrong in my thoughts.

Hi Di.  I am totally with you on this.  I am also saddened by the way that the Christian academy has let us down in this issue.

This is a very apt critique but then again we cling to things and fight for things that perish.  Our jobs one day will end and the homes that we live in we’ll one day move out of and the countries that we live in will one day be judged and be no more.  But it doesn’t stop us from fighting for them…

The environmental debate has been hijacked by a lot of crazies, especially those from the socialist left.  They’ve taken the environment to worship creation rather than the creator so Christians need to be careful not to singe their fingers in the same way.

Hi Andrew,

I think you are right that the images of judgement and violent intervention are often played down by some who seek to embrace an eschatology of material continuity.

Perhaps as a way of helping you understand where such folks are coming from, it is helpful to remember that the Christian theological tradition has, in many cases, downplayed any notion of material continuity, and eagerly embraced the wholesale annihilation of the world. “Heaven” becomes the favoured term for the future, rather than “new creation”. This has inspired the reaction you now see, in which many folk (myself included), have been surprised and delighted to discover that the Bible speaks also of the renewal of the created order, and a ‘full bodied’ future in resurrection life. Inevitably, in reacting to the previous extreme, new extremes develop, and this has led to a downplaying of important texts. It can be hard to get the balance right.

Having said that, I am not sure we are on the same page on this issue, but I do appreciate your drawing attention to the need for balance. I simply think it important, however, to remember that the historical-theological context for this issue is broader than the last 5 years of scholarship. That larger horizon is what informs a lot of the thinking you see.

This discussion reminds me of a seminar that I ran around two years ago at Christians in the Media on ‘Ethics and Climate Change’.  It was just a small group and so is not very polished at all.  Check it out if you are interested.

http://www.christiansinthemedia.org/downloads/070913_ABarry_climate_change.mp3