Tony,
You refer to the pendulum swing (i.e. from disciple making to a discipling movement). What do you suppose caused it, and when did it begin taking notable shape? Also, are you referring exclusively to the Australian church?

BTW, with each subsequent post on the upcoming book, it only whets my appetite!

MLJ

Michael,

I’m certainly talking about my own circles here in Sydney Evangelicalism at the very least. Exactly how or why these things change is very hard to gauge. And it is very possible that I have an inflated view of how widespread a personal discipling and training culture ever was in the 80s and early 90s. But I certainly think it is not flavour of the month here at the moment. (Maybe it’s church planting at the moment, or running contextualized attractional meetings. I don’t know.)

What’s your perception of the position of the pendulum Stateside? (I guess the pendulum I’m talking about has on one end a decentralized, overly-democratic, anti-clerical trust in small groups and personal discipling as the pure form of ministry; and on the other end, there is ministry that is very programmed and staff-dominated, and in which the Sunday meeting with its sermon is just about the only word ministry that takes place.)

John,

Thanks for asking the clarifying question. I’m saying that all ministry should have as its goal the making of disciples—whether the preaching of sermons to hundreds, or the reading of the Bible one to one.

What does it look like? Where I’ve seen it in practice, the pastor has (at least) two key roles: the expository preacher who rallies and challenges and teaches his flock every Sunday; and the personal trainer, who gathers people around him, trains them in godliness, knowledge and ministry competency, and then releases those people to minister to and train others.

The result is not only a powerful pulpit ministry that drives the whole thing and holds it together, but an often messy web of personal ministry and discipling alongside or underneath it.

TP

Tony,

The pendulum shift here in the USA seems to be the latter (i.e., “there is ministry that is very programmed and staff-dominated, and in which the Sunday meeting with its sermon is just about the only word ministry that
takes place.” In other words, for many Christians here in the USA, Sunday morning is not only the main course, but the entire meal. (Readers in the USA: thoughts?)

However, it seems that the “decentralized, overly-democratic, anti-clerical trust in small groups and personal discipling as the pure form of ministry” is gaining momentum and is, as you put it, the “flavor of the month” in some circles. Reading The Briefing interview with Steve Timmis, is this your understanding of what he and Tim propose in Total Church?

MLJ